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Originally Posted by wilthrill  The "truth" is that he is not heroic like John Paul was. I can understand joining the Hitler Youth at the point of a gun. That is unfortunate and perhaps you are not a bad guy because you were forced to do it. BUT YOU ARE NOT A HERO EITHER!!!!
Reverence???? I understand "you say tomato I say toMATo" but don't you think you're stretching the meaning of the word "reverence" a bit? I mean I've always thought of reverence as meaning RESPECT. People crying all over themselves, fainting etc goes WAY BEYOND "reverence".
As for those protestant cults, their "leaders" weren't visiting Washington DC last week and having literally MILLIONS of people nationwide shitting themselves over it. OF COURSE they (Jim Jones, David Koresh etc) were bad.
I, sure as hell, am not a spokesman for ANY religion. So when I ask a question of catholicism, I am not by implication glorifying or defending protestantism. I do find it odd that when talking about the Pope you'd bring up CULT leaders like Jones and Koresh. I mean if they or one of their nutjobs does something to get back in the news, we can talk about them. But I wasn't comparing the Pope to them although now that you mention it one could compare the attitude of their devotees as displayed in DC last week.
I'm sure that'll ruffle some feathers but I am just asking what I see to be the central contradiction of catholicism.
I could ask similar hard questions of other religions.
Christianity - how is it freewill when your god has a gun to my head.
Islam - how is it a religion of peace when you want to KILL PEOPLE who don't believe as you do.
Budhism - how in the hell do you get into that lotus position. No seriously, why be moral when you can reincarnate forever and thus fix any fuckups you have along the way.
Wilthrill is a cynical person when it comes to religion. I picked the catholics last week because they were in the news. They certainly do not have a monopoly on Wilthrill's cynicism. |
I agree that John Paul II was heroic in a way that Benedict XVI was not. Their lives were pretty different since one's country was divided up by 2 wolves while the other's country was one of the wolves. Benedict was chosen as an interim Pope to basically continue JPII's policies so the church could put off a big decision - pressure to choose an African or Latin-American Pope. 75% of all Catholics are in Latin America, after all.
Reverence is more than simple respect, yet less than worship. I respect you, Wilthrill, but don't revere you. I revered JPII more than I do Pope Benedict because of his extraordinary life. But at the same time I do revere Pope Benedict because he has dedicated his life to God and in doing that has come to head the church at this point in time.
I used Jones and Koresh as extreme examples, but what they have in common with other Protestant sects is that the pastor of the local church calls the shots for his church, rather than bing a cog in a large administrative machine. Catholocism is the cult of the monolith, Protestantism is the cult of personality of the pastor at the local level. There may be larger organizations of Baptists, Methodists, etc... but as I understand it they're not really under one roof. Wheras the Pope can reach out to any Catholic parish on Earth and exert his will. Not that he usually does with a billion people under the umbrella.
American Catholics have been through a rough several years. A Papal visit improves morale. Some people are extremely affected by his prescene and if it enriches their lives, that's great. why that would irritate you, I don't really understand.