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Old 10-24-2008, 10:25 AM
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Turning the NFL into two-hand touch football

http://www.footballboards.com/nfl-fo...-football.html

In the article Steeler's safety Troy Palamumu (however the hell you spell his last name) is complaining about the NFL's new enforcement policy regarding CONTACT. You got to love Jack Lambert who said they should put skirts on the Quarterbacks so people will know not to hit them.

What do you guys think of his point?

I don't mind penalties for LATE hits or SPEARING but WHY should a quarterback be treated any differently than anyone else on the field. And if anybody can name even one instance where the rule was enforced involving a "hit" on an offensive lineman let me know because every time I've seen it enforced it involved a QB or wide receiver.

For example if a QB takes off running and SLIDES then I can see not hitting him full force (he's down when you touch him) but if he doesn't slide I think defensive players should be able to clean his clock.
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Old 10-24-2008, 03:13 PM
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:37 PM
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Well now the NFL has gone even further initiating what is called the Tom Brady rule. So now if a defensive lineman gets knocked to the ground he can not CRAWL to the quarterback and TACKLE the quarterback by wrapping up the quarterback's legs.

What about second effort and people who have been coached since they were in Pop Warner football to NEVER give up on the play?

Oh but the NFL must protect it's prima donnas oops I mean quarterbacks.

Yep Lambert was right. Quarterbacks need to wear skirts!
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:35 AM
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The issue is that quarterbacks are often times defenseless so I understand the rules put in to protect them. Its not an issue of toughness, but rather to prevent injuries. People who say the QBs should be wearing skirts obviously don't understand that concept. I think its funny that people like Lambert are supposed to be tough, yet complain that they can't hit someone that is not able to defend himself. I have always thought the QB slide rule was BS though.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:59 PM
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Well Trey what about a wide receiver running a quick slant across the middle? To catch the ball he has to leave himself defenseless and he knows he is going to get hit and due to the fact that he is moving at a high rate of speed when he gets hit, he's actually going to get hit with a lot more force than a QB who generally speaking is standing still. Usually when you see a hit that leaves someone paralyzed or ends their career it is a wide receiver, defensive back or someone on special teams not the Quarterback. In fact Joe Theisman is the ONLY NFL QB who I can think of off the top of my head who had his career ended by a hit and he was old when that happened.

Furthermore the Tom Brady rule has NOTHING to do with the QB being "defenseless". The QB can be FULLY AWARE of the defensive lineman on the ground crawling toward him and it makes no difference. The defensive lineman can't tackle the QB by crawling to him and wrapping up his legs.

Now if it were a running back then the defensive lineman can walk, crawl, run or fly and wrap up any part of the guy's body he wants and that is fine. So I guess the NFL just doesn't give a shit about running backs who BTW typically have SHORTER careers than QB's.

And what about the wildcat formation? When the Miami Dolphins snap the ball to Ronnie Brown (running back) does Brown get the benefit of the Tom Brady rule?

Finally this rule allows too much interpretation by the referees. It WILL increase the incidence of bad calls as if we didn't have enough of them last season see San Diego v Denver, Titans v Ravens 1st round of playoffs and the SuperBowl for god's sake!!

Last edited by wilthrill; 05-05-2009 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilthrill View Post
Well Trey what about a wide receiver running a quick slant across the middle? To catch the ball he has to leave himself defenseless and he knows he is going to get hit and due to the fact that he is moving at a high rate of speed when he gets hit, he's actually going to get hit with a lot more force than a QB who generally speaking is standing still. Usually when you see a hit that leaves someone paralyzed or ends their career it is a wide receiver, defensive back or someone on special teams not the Quarterback. In fact Joe Theisman is the ONLY NFL QB who I can think of off the top of my head who had his career ended by a hit and he was old when that happened.
A WR who makes a catch and takes a hit in most cases is legal, just as in the same way a QB taking a big hit during a sack in most cases is legal. Many of the rules between QB and WR or anyone holding the ball are similar, its mostly involving head to head hits. This isn't an issue with QBs in comparison to other positions, there are universal rules to all positions. There isn't a rule that says you can't put a good hit on QBs, you just have to earn that right. Hitting them well after they have thrown the ball or in the knees is just cheap.

As far as "career ending injuries," its not really justifiable to compare that to these rules, because injuries of that seriousness are usually from freak accidents and are very rare. These types of rules are more towards preventing injuries that will put players out of action for several weeks or a season. Players who have had their careers ended on the field usually don't have much to do with these types of rules. There is no rule that would have prevented Theisman, Bo, Irvin, Dennis Byrd, or Sterling Sharpe from their atrocities. They just got caught in awkward and unfortunate situations. But since you asked, just off the top of my head, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, and Stan Humphries all ended their careers early due to multiple concussions. And its not a coincidence that these injuries involving concussions are one of the main things that the NFL is trying to prevent.

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Originally Posted by wilthrill View Post
Furthermore the Tom Brady rule has NOTHING to do with the QB being "defenseless". The QB can be FULLY AWARE of the defensive lineman on the ground crawling toward him and it makes no difference. The defensive lineman can't tackle the QB by crawling to him and wrapping up his legs.

Now if it were a running back then the defensive lineman can walk, crawl, run or fly and wrap up any part of the guy's body he wants and that is fine. So I guess the NFL just doesn't give a shit about running backs who BTW typically have SHORTER careers than QB's.
This rule is geared toward QBs because this type of injury typically happens when a player isn't moving around much. How often do RBs or WRs get tackled while standing still? Or better yet, how often do you see a defender crawling towards a player who is running with the ball? LOL. Likewise, if a QB is running then this rule wouldn't apply, which furthermore would answer you Ronnie Brown question. If you feel that this rule is absurd, then feel free to stand still and let people lunge at your knees, then tell me if you are comfortable with it. Just please don't try to chalk this up to encouraging players to give up on a play. They can very well get up off their feet and go make a tackle.

Hey I don't claim to be an expert on NFL rules, but I do realize that its best for the league and for the fans to keep the best players on the field as much as possible. I do have issues with some of the NFL's rules that I believe are tacky, but most of the things they implement to prevent injuries I can understand.
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:08 PM
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Well you made several points so I will address them.

First this rule is SPECIFICALLY for Quarterbacks. It is not a "universal rule" and it IS "an issue with QBs in comparison to other positions".

IT is NOT "cheap" to hit ANYONE WITH THE BALL in the legs. Now if the pass has been thrown (i.e. the QB doesn't have the ball) THAT would be cheap. Tackling a guy WITH THE BALL by wrapping up his legs is not cheap.

Well if "these types of rules are more towards preventing injuries that will put players out of action for several weeks or a season" then why ONLY Quarterbacks and why not just eliminate contact all together? I don't have the stats but I'd be willing to bet that QB is one of the LEAST injured positions especially when you compare them to linemen and wideouts.

"And its not a coincidence that these injuries involving concussions are one of the main things that the NFL is trying to prevent."

Exactly how do you prevent concussions by forbidding tackling around the LEGS??? Sure, the helmet to helmet rules are about preventing concussions but the Tom Brady rule is NOT!!

"How often do RBs or WRs get tackled while standing still? Or better yet, how often do you see a defender crawling towards a player who is running with the ball? LOL"

Which is why (a pesky thing called physics and momentum) a wide receiver needs MORE protection from "cheap shots" than a QB and yet this rule protects QB's. And actually I see defensive linemen crawling to tackle WHOEVER has the ball on all kind of broken plays. Now more often than not it is a QB who is standing in the backfield and thus the target but I've seen running backs and wide receivers tackled by some lineman on the ground.

Here's a copy of the rule I got off the internet.
The fifth provision of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 12 (roughing the passer) says that: “A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.”

It doesn't say ANYTHING about a QB moving around in the pocket (a.k.a. running). I would ASSUME that on a RUNNING play (A QB draw for example) they could hit him in the legs because the rule does say "passer". But I'm from Tennessee and we used to have a starting QB named Vince Young whose chief talent was turning busted pass plays into ten-yard gains by RUNNING. So if I'm a defensive lineman and Young drops back to pass then I can't wrap his legs up until he passes the line of scrimmage??

"Just please don't try to chalk this up to encouraging players to give up on a play. They can very well get up off their feet and go make a tackle."

Uh, they can make the tackle ONLY if they don't hit the guy in the legs which since THEY are on the ground would be the easiest place to hit them. The NFL is a game of seconds, hell microseconds, with all the speed in the league. It is not like the defenders have all freaking day.

When I played football it was a TEAM sport. The best QB still had to run wind sprints like any other player. The best QB still got hit like every other player. I can see banning hits like AFTER the ball has been thrown. That will affect QB's the most because they throw the ball more than anyone else. I can see banning helmet to helmet for ALL players although it is a SUBJECTIVE rule and hard to call. But to make a rule especially for QB's ONLY is bullshit! If hitting at the knees is so dangerous then the rule should apply to anyone who has the ball not just QB's (after all more running backs have knee injuries than QB's). The NFL has made it for QB's only and they are quickly heading toward a system where you have one set of rules for QB's and another set for everyone else and the ONLY reason for this is that the NFL doesn't want one of it's "star" QB's to miss games. What about the other "stars"? Peyton Manning is a big star and a damn good QB but can you honestly say that someone like Ray Lewis, Adrian Peterson, Larry Fitzgerald aren't valuable to their teams? Ah but more people know Peyton Manning and more Colts fans would tune out if Manning was injured and THAT is the real reason for this rule.

Last edited by wilthrill; 05-11-2009 at 04:17 PM.
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