Pelosi et al KNEW and APPROVED of "torture" in 2002

wilthrill · 12-11-2007, 08:19 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

NOW the democrats are raising hell about waterboarding and other forms of "torture" when in fact THEY knew about this back in 2002 and at that time approved of it.

From the article:
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

GEE IS THERE ANYTHING THE DEMOCRATS WON'T PLAY POLITICS WITH??????

Mikael · 12-11-2007, 06:38 PM

Now the media is up in arms about destroyed CIA tapes! Pelosi knew about those then and is just NOW raising hell about it? Not all Dems are that way, but this is possibly the worst congress ever.

wilthrill · 12-12-2007, 07:42 AM

I don't know Mikael.

The CIA destroying tapes???? One might to begin to think the CIA was in the secrecy business. Oh, but wait, they ARE!!!!!

You know some low level NON-COVERT CIA desk jockey "outs" herself and two years later the Democrats have their panties in a wad trying to impeach the president because "we must protect our CIA desk jockeys".

But now the Democrats WANT the public release of tapes that WOULD "out" actual COVERT agents IN THE FIELD!!!!!

And I agree Mikael, Democrats of old would NOT have played politics like this. As I said above they HATED Reagan but even folks like Tip O'Neil were American enough not to play politics with national security. Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi etc WILL play politics with ANYTHING if they think it will gain them political advantage!!

junkernaut · 12-13-2007, 02:37 AM

hey will...this isnt really related, and i really dont care about any of the people involved, this is just fodder for debate.

a few years ago when someone asked about mit romneys stance on abortion, he stated that as long roe v wade was still legal, he would support it. but now since he's running for president on the conservative ticket, he has come out as saying that he now disagrees with the court ruling and will work to have it overturned, and that he has changed his mind. does make him a flip flopper?

in 2002, pelosi et al, to quote u, were in favor of waterboarding and other torture, but now, theyre trying to get a democrat into the presidency so theyve come out against it, possibly saying that theyve changed their minds after new evidence comes to light....is this flip flopping...and if so, then both parties are flip floppers, and nothing that they ever say should ever be trusted.

ok...discuss

Mikael · 12-13-2007, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkernaut

hey will...this isnt really related, and i really dont care about any of the people involved, this is just fodder for debate.

a few years ago when someone asked about mit romneys stance on abortion, he stated that as long roe v wade was still legal, he would support it. but now since he's running for president on the conservative ticket, he has come out as saying that he now disagrees with the court ruling and will work to have it overturned, and that he has changed his mind. does make him a flip flopper?

in 2002, pelosi et al, to quote u, were in favor of waterboarding and other torture, but now, theyre trying to get a democrat into the presidency so theyve come out against it, possibly saying that theyve changed their minds after new evidence comes to light....is this flip flopping...and if so, then both parties are flip floppers, and nothing that they ever say should ever be trusted.

ok...discuss

Mitt Romney didn't change his stance on abortion just before he decided to run for the Republican nomination. As far as I know he changed his views while he was governor of Massachusetts and never passed a "pro-choice" bill. He also freely admits he was wrong on the issue and has received awards from the pro-life side. Nancy Pelosi and others never said anything about water-boarding until the media made it an issue and they realized they could get some political gains from it. Now they act like destroying CIA interrogation tapes is cause for investigation. It's ridiculous to say the least. Were these tapes supposed to be shown on CNN or something?

PITBOSS · 12-13-2007, 08:36 PM

Sometimes it seems that they say what the people want to hear. Lets say back when Romney was gov, pro-choice was in, now it seems as its out of fashion. Same with waterboarding, it was pretty cool when it was making terrorists talk and saving american lives, but now.....

I guess in the end you just have to judge this stuff for yourself since there are very few that hold to their principles.

*edit... na screw that, these guys absolutely have to hold to their principles. be very wary of those who don't.

ssspert · 12-14-2007, 06:34 AM

death is too good.
why NOT torture?
The sorry MF's killed thousands, and changed life for US forever.
Never forget!
The ones that were tortured on the waterboard didn't last for a minute, then they spill the beans.
If it means stopping any other terrorist activity in this country, do what needs to be done.

wilthrill · 12-17-2007, 05:56 PM

Junkernaut, Romney's changing position on abortion is WHY I'm so leery of him. I mean he's WON the debates I've seen him in but I don't trust him.

So yes Republicans are capable of flip flopping.

WHAT republicans and the older generation of Democrats (with a few notable exceptions like Ted Kennedy) DON'T DO (generally speaking) is to so BLATANTLY work for the DEFEAT of THEIR country.

The most recent pre-Bush example was Clinton in Kosovo. Many republicans/conservatives (myself included) opposed that war. But we didn't leak information to the enemy. We didn't stand up on the Senate floor and declare that our troops had "lost the war" or were "murdering, raping and pillaging in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan" or were "breaking down doors in the dead of night terorizing women and children" or were the equivalent of "nazis" or had "murdered civilians in cold blood".

Disagreeing with a war is one thing. Actively working to ensure your county's DEFEAT is quite another. Used to we could assume that all politicians were Americans first and though they had differences they were all interested in victory in the sad event we had to fight a war.

Today however the DEMOCRAT party has shown that it is interested solely in POWER and will gladly allow the
US to be defeated if it suits their political agenda. THEY get mad anytime someone "questions their patriotism". Well I AM questioning the patriotism of a Senator who while troops are in combat goes on the Senate floor to declare them to be "losers"! There ARE people who oppose the war and ARE patriotic but apparently there are NONE of THEM in the Democratic leadership!!!

clone9 · 12-18-2007, 08:13 AM

all the more reason I am glad I did this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r-VrtXsqJg

wilthrill · 12-18-2007, 09:27 AM

Well that was interesting. They are making those secret service people SMALLER these days. Maybe the dude was some bad ass kung fu type but he looked as if you could have just pushed him over.

A question though:

WHY do you think Pelosi et al are so afraid of you? I could understand repubs pushing you away but one would think that Pelosi would have wanted you to be SEEN. If I were her I would be leery of anyone getting close to me and that was what secret service was for. BUT I wouldn't have minded if the "protesters" got caught on FILM. Then I could say "look at all these people calling for Bush's impeachment. I have to do something."

12-11-2007, 08:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	Pelosi et al KNEW and APPROVED of "torture" in 2002 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews NOW the democrats are raising hell about waterboarding and other forms of "torture" when in fact THEY knew about this back in 2002 and at that time approved of it. From the article: In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk. Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said. GEE IS THERE ANYTHING THE DEMOCRATS WON'T PLAY POLITICS WITH??????

12-11-2007, 06:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mikael Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Down In a Hole Posts: 905 Rep Power: 43	Now the media is up in arms about destroyed CIA tapes! Pelosi knew about those then and is just NOW raising hell about it? Not all Dems are that way, but this is possibly the worst congress ever. __________________ I just saved a ton of money on car insurance by switching to no car insurance!!! www.myspace.com/13468360

12-13-2007, 02:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
junkernaut Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 44	hey will...this isnt really related, and i really dont care about any of the people involved, this is just fodder for debate. a few years ago when someone asked about mit romneys stance on abortion, he stated that as long roe v wade was still legal, he would support it. but now since he's running for president on the conservative ticket, he has come out as saying that he now disagrees with the court ruling and will work to have it overturned, and that he has changed his mind. does make him a flip flopper? in 2002, pelosi et al, to quote u, were in favor of waterboarding and other torture, but now, theyre trying to get a democrat into the presidency so theyve come out against it, possibly saying that theyve changed their minds after new evidence comes to light....is this flip flopping...and if so, then both parties are flip floppers, and nothing that they ever say should ever be trusted. ok...discuss __________________ jesus had a great publicist

12-13-2007, 08:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
PITBOSS Band Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Grand Bay Age: 33 Posts: 283 Rep Power: 39	Sometimes it seems that they say what the people want to hear. Lets say back when Romney was gov, pro-choice was in, now it seems as its out of fashion. Same with waterboarding, it was pretty cool when it was making terrorists talk and saving american lives, but now..... I guess in the end you just have to judge this stuff for yourself since there are very few that hold to their principles. edit... na screw that, these guys absolutely have to hold to their principles. be very wary of those who don't. Last edited by PITBOSS; 12-16-2007 at 10:57 PM.*

12-14-2007, 06:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
ssspert Band Member Productive GCB Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: wemo Posts: 1,783 Rep Power: 11	death is too good. why NOT torture? The sorry MF's killed thousands, and changed life for US forever. Never forget! The ones that were tortured on the waterboard didn't last for a minute, then they spill the beans. If it means stopping any other terrorist activity in this country, do what needs to be done. __________________ Straight Shots Myspace page My Myspace Bass page email ME for Straight Shot booking information. “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean

12-12-2007, 07:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	I don't know Mikael. The CIA destroying tapes???? One might to begin to think the CIA was in the secrecy business. Oh, but wait, they ARE!!!!! You know some low level NON-COVERT CIA desk jockey "outs" herself and two years later the Democrats have their panties in a wad trying to impeach the president because "we must protect our CIA desk jockeys". But now the Democrats WANT the public release of tapes that WOULD "out" actual COVERT agents IN THE FIELD!!!!! And I agree Mikael, Democrats of old would NOT have played politics like this. As I said above they HATED Reagan but even folks like Tip O'Neil were American enough not to play politics with national security. Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi etc WILL play politics with ANYTHING if they think it will gain them political advantage!!

12-17-2007, 05:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	Junkernaut, Romney's changing position on abortion is WHY I'm so leery of him. I mean he's WON the debates I've seen him in but I don't trust him. So yes Republicans are capable of flip flopping. WHAT republicans and the older generation of Democrats (with a few notable exceptions like Ted Kennedy) DON'T DO (generally speaking) is to so BLATANTLY work for the DEFEAT of THEIR country. The most recent pre-Bush example was Clinton in Kosovo. Many republicans/conservatives (myself included) opposed that war. But we didn't leak information to the enemy. We didn't stand up on the Senate floor and declare that our troops had "lost the war" or were "murdering, raping and pillaging in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan" or were "breaking down doors in the dead of night terorizing women and children" or were the equivalent of "nazis" or had "murdered civilians in cold blood". Disagreeing with a war is one thing. Actively working to ensure your county's DEFEAT is quite another. Used to we could assume that all politicians were Americans first and though they had differences they were all interested in victory in the sad event we had to fight a war. Today however the DEMOCRAT party has shown that it is interested solely in POWER and will gladly allow the US to be defeated if it suits their political agenda. THEY get mad anytime someone "questions their patriotism". Well I AM questioning the patriotism of a Senator who while troops are in combat goes on the Senate floor to declare them to be "losers"! There ARE people who oppose the war and ARE patriotic but apparently there are NONE of THEM in the Democratic leadership!!! Last edited by wilthrill; 12-17-2007 at 06:05 PM.

12-18-2007, 08:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
clone9 Band Member Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: earth Age: 96 Posts: 173 Rep Power: 44	well... all the more reason I am glad I did this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r-VrtXsqJg __________________ "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump “Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

12-18-2007, 09:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	Well that was interesting. They are making those secret service people SMALLER these days. Maybe the dude was some bad ass kung fu type but he looked as if you could have just pushed him over. A question though: WHY do you think Pelosi et al are so afraid of you? I could understand repubs pushing you away but one would think that Pelosi would have wanted you to be SEEN. If I were her I would be leery of anyone getting close to me and that was what secret service was for. BUT I wouldn't have minded if the "protesters" got caught on FILM. Then I could say "look at all these people calling for Bush's impeachment. I have to do something."