Apparently Dubya Gump is trying to make the claim that psychological 'torture' isn't really 'torture' at all...well I'm here to tell ya 'torture' IS 'torture' regardless of whether it is physical vs. psychological....furthermore 'torture' is clearly a violation of the GC, therefore, Dubya Gump once again has admitted to being a WAR CRIMINAL and as such should be impeached asap and then sent off for his war crimes trial along with The Dick...

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"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump

“Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

I'm living proof that psychological mind fucking is torture. Then again, it's all how you deal with it as to how you turn out.

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Support local music, sleep with a musician.

I'm with you that parsing the definition of torture here is ridiculous.

However, terrorists aren't prisoners of war. People who are willing to kill our troops, decapitate reporters and target women and children for suicide bomb attacks are not people I lose sleep over.

Physical or physcological it really is all the same.

And I agree with Lerxstcat.

and I am sure the Vietnamese said the same things about US soldiers they tortured during Nam, and the Koreans said the same things about US soldiers they tortured during Korea, etc....etc.....i..e that was the ENTIRE reason we signed on to treaties like the GC,etc.....basically I think this Time magazine article sums things up pretty well as to why Dubya's torture policies are just wrong in every way imaginable...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes

so basically Dubya has blatantly broken US and international law and this 'torture gate' is the smoking gun that Congress SHOULD use to IMPEACH NOW (but they are a bunch of IMPOTENT no ballsack having ahols) so Dubya could shoot a baby in the head on tv at this point and they wouldn't impeach him it seems and that is sad

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"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump

“Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

Well, if I may ask, what do you do when you capture a prisoner who knows about a nuke that is going to go off in 24 hours in a major American city?

You've indicated that you are against physical torture and that psychological torture is "just as bad" so do you EVEN hold the son of a bitch because you know DETAINING someone is quite stressful in the psychological sense????

If, detaining him is not psychologically stressful enough to meet your definition of torture, do you place ANY pressure WHATSOEVER on him to answer questions??? I mean if you yell and scream at him surely that meets your definition of psychological torture.

I guess in that scenario you either torture him or hope he cooperates. Given their track record, I'd rather violate the "rights" of ONE murderous THUG than violate the right to life of thirty thousand people so I guess I'd be a "war criminal" also.....

Most people in this country don't want Bush impeached, including even most of his political opponents. Most people recognize that there is a difference between soldiers in uniform following established rules of engagement, and terrorists who hide among the populace and target women and children specifically.

Those US troops couldn't exactly hide among the Vietnamese or Korean populations, now could they?

Terrorists are not covered by the Geneva Convention.
And as Wilthrill said, if a US city is at risk and we have a terrorist in custody who might know something we can use to thwart an attack, then I'm for breaking out the propane torch and starting with his big toe.

You have to conduct a conflict by the rules, or lack therof, that your opponent uses. If you try to fight clean and he's fighting dirty, you'll lose. When the safety and security of the nation is at stake, losing is not an option.

the lame "GC doesn't apply to people who aren't in uniform' argument was bitch slapped by the US SUPREME COURT over a year ago i.e. the US SUPREME COURT said the 'terrorists' held in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib have to be treated by the rules of the GC...now the very next day after that US SUPREME COURT ruling Dubya changed his policy and agreed to supposedly apply the GC to them....basically that in itself was an admission of already having broken the law PRIOR to that point....

and the one thing most people still don't get is that study after study has shown that torture does NOT work. You are far more likely to get good useful intel by being nice to the prisoners bc if you torture them they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear...

and no I don't personally give a crap about torturing bad people the entire point is that Dubya is flagrantly breaking the law over and over and over and nobody will stop him

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"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump

“Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

Yeah and those same studies say the DEATH penalty has absolutely NO DETERRENT effect on crime!!!!

When we KNOW FOR A FACT that the death penalty DETERS THAT criminal from killing again. In many cases (John Wayne Gacy 33 victims) THAT, in and of itself, would be quite a deterrent effect.

I'd love to get some of those conducting the study (torture doesn't work being a nice guy does) alone in a room with a pair of pliers. I know for a FACT that torture would work on me (you start pulling teeth with no pain killer and I'd be singing like a bird).

And I'll bet a thousand dollars that applies to EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD!!!!

The people who say torture doesn't work would be the first to be singing once the pliers started....

As for being nice to the terrorists to get info, surely you are kidding???? Maybe if we held their hands and sent them christmas cards (oops I meant AllahDay cards) they'd "understand" and not be so violent.

As for the info you get, of course some of it is going to be wrong. These are TERRORISTS for god's sake. If they will murder, they won't have a problem lying.
Soooo they give you info, you stop torturing long enough to verify it. If it is wrong you torture them some more. It's not rocket science!!!

You may say, "well that doesn't sound too efficient, Wilthrill and it is hard using that method to tell when you have good info".

I'd reply it is a hell of a lot more efficient than being nice to the terrorist and waiting for him to just volunteer the info and thus in his mind condemn himself to hell for an eternity. Because if there is one thing I have to admit about the terrorists it is that they REALLY BELIEVE this shit!!!! Mustafa who just blew up two toddlers and a pizza restaurant full of women REALLY BELIEVES he is going to heaven for his murderous acts. Do you honestly think someone capable of THAT kind of savagery is going to damn himself to hell by cooperating with the Great Satan and betraying his brother terrorist especially when they are about to kill thirty thousand members of the Great Satan?

If so, shit in one hand, wish in the other and see which fills up fastest.

Although I will say this, Bush etc should just admit that yes, in limited circumstances we WILL torture. Bush IS lying when he says we never torture. Perhaps, he like previous presidents feels he has to say this, but I for one would like to see someone with the GUTS to tell the fucking truth!!

despite disagreeing with my position you admit it is obvious he is lying through his teeth. So since it is obvious to us and also everyone else on the planet, the main problem is he has singlehandedly destroyed US credibility on a global scale.

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"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump

“Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”