I don't have Mexicans either.

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http://www.myspace.com/elsah
http://www.myspace.com/thewayhighmen

I know this is unrealistic, but what really gets me in political debate is that we can't debate and disagree about these matters without demonizing the opponents of our views. It's easy to call names in the heat of it but at the end of the day why not consider that your opponent has their view in good faith?

It's true that we tend to adopt "our" side's rhetoric and it becomes "we rule, you drool". Fine for the sake of a vigorous debate, but a little mutual respect also goes a long way.

Clockwork, maybe your viewpoint won't change with time just because mine did. On the other hand, youi're 24. It's naive for you to be so sure that time won't change your views either. You said I don't know you other than your age. True, and you don't know me either. Your statements indicate that you think you're superior to me because you feel that you, unlike me, won't change. So, little as you know me, why do you feel superior to me?

My views and statements are informed by my experience. I've been an adult for slightly longer than you've been alive, and I came of age in 1976. I grew up hating the Vietnam War and having a lot of idealism. 19 years in Los Angeles tempered that naivete with some ugly realities. Not that I didn't love it there, but you adapt to survive.

So you may or may not change your views over time, but don't dub yourself superior. You don't know what's ahead. Sure your friends probably laugh at your witty contemptuous barbs, but are you trying to be sincere, or just funny? Or orthodox to your chosen peer group?

If you really want to be open-minded, don't close your mind with knee-jerk reactions. Dogma is dogma, whether religious or secular. Don't get caught up in dogmatic thinking. I disagree with you on this issue but I'm not calling you a traitor; I just think your POV is wrong. So disagree with me, but save the racist stuff so it has a punch when it actually applies.

I stopped saying racist at the beginning of this argument. Regardless of your age, don't talk as though you have something to teach me. All I ever say in these discussions is that all in all we should love our fellow man and try to help each other in times of need. Sometimes people hear that kind of talk and think it is evil. They try to bring down my good ideals with their worry of money and property and their own personal space. People are dying in the streets from hunger and poverty and all this guy (wilthril) can say is "don't let them in. they might not be clean" or something to that effect. "They'll take our money etc..."
Well I have information that you might be interested in knowing. And that is that when we die there's no money to carry around. There's no more personal space or anything of the sort. People hear my views and say "that's some dumb fool who cannot see the big picture". But I say it is those people who cannot see the big picture. You think the big picture stops at how much wealth you accumulate? I think not. The big picture stops (at least for us) with all mankind in view. The most important thing for us is to lean on each other for survival. Be willing to reduce your quality of life for others, if you can. And it is with that knowledge that comes the power to make a difference. Can you see the big picture now, speedy?

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Censor this, bitch.

Ah, so you only played the racist card at first, so that's okay, right? Gotcha....

If you think you have nothing to learn from me then you're just close-minded, something you like to accuse others of - speedy. If you don't see my previous post as an olive branch to both sides of the political chasm then you're not very perceptive for all your wry wit.

I know all about when we die. One of the things about being older is that you lose more loved ones as you go. Many of the people I cared the most about are gone and it's no mystery that you can't take it with you.

But do you want the rampant poverty of a country like India here, simply due to a billion souls crammed into an economy that can't support it? America is rich, but not infinitely so. Compassion is a good thing, but I want my own family and descendants to have a high quality of life first of all. I don't want them sharing starvation with a billion other Americans because of your well-intentioned but misguided Utopian ideals.

Well first of all the comments weren't directed at you.


Speedy. Lol!


And no I don't expect my "utopian" (i love that word. everyone uses it) ideas to take hold and save our beloved earth. The truth is, as I have been trying to make you all understand since page one of this thread, that I have no idea how to solve the woes of our system. The truth is, in a world where we spend billions on a fake war, if there is a single person without food and shelter then the system is broken.

I don't claim to be "wry" or witty. And once again, I don't have the answers. And neither does anyone on this message board. The person who can solve the problems of the world is going to be someone who rethinks society as a whole in ways that you or I can't even begin to fathom. Someone willing to take risks to pave the way into a true civilizaton for all time. People today are to afraid of losing their possessions or being taken over by terrorists to set in motion the wheels of change.
Here's the skinny. We work our whole lives and what does it get us? A carbon copy red house, a few cars, and children that will go on to build the same house and so on. Today I took a drive through a rich neighborhood and realized that I did not envy any of the people I saw. What does anyone truly have? Like I said before, at your ultimate destination none of that will matter.
Ask yourself if you would be willing to be a part of a global reorganization process if you were convinced that while it would be strange and awkward at first, it would benefit the whole world? I'm telling you, there's a way! I... just don't know what that is. But one day it'll happen. Someone'll be thinking and suddenly like a lightbulb the answers will be, clear and glaring. Something no one's ever thought of. Do you believe that is possible (<- please answer)?

I'm surprised that someone as clearly intelligent and understanding as you could continuously misinterpret my words, Lerxstcat. Here's a few points of clarification for you.
1. I still think wilthril is a racist. I just stopped saying it because he bitched about it so much. I didn't want to hurt his feelings anymore.

If you think you have nothing to learn from me then you're just close-minded
2. I'm sure there's much I could learn from you. Just not about this topic, since we are obviously bumping heads over it.

You lose more loved ones as you go
3. I definitely don't wanna argue about losing loved ones. I've lost a few myself and it sucks.

America is rich, but not infinitely so.
4. America isn't the only country in the world. I'm sure there's room to spare.

Utopian ideals.
5. Heh heh. There's that word again.

speedy
6. That wasn't directed at you, fool!

If you don't see my previous post as an olive branch
7. But I did!

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Censor this, bitch.

YES! I could care less who lives here as long as they go about it the right way.

Razz! You women are always banding together against the superior gender. Can't you see that even with your combined might you cannot defeat us?

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Censor this, bitch.

Suck it.

Only if you take off that ridiculous hat.

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Censor this, bitch.

It kept the sun off my cheeks!!!