The REAL solution to the border problem??? - Page 6

clockworkengine · #51 (**permalink**) 04-04-2007, 10:47 AM

What's wrong with your pants?

Razz · #52 (**permalink**) 04-04-2007, 01:50 PM

I wasn't wearing any!

Lerxstcat · #53 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007, 03:16 PM

Okay, well first of all, OOPS! for mistaking that. Second, cool that we're making some progress here.

I DO think that a better way is POSSIBLE, but my feeling and fear is that the USA can't implement it alone, and might well go under trying to do that by itself. I also feel that other than possibly the EU, the rest of the world is not interested as most upcoming countries feel they deserve their turn as dominators and exploiters. In a sense I'd have to concede they'd have a point, though I certainly disagree, if that makes sense.

I don't see Russia, China or the Islamic world going Kum-bi-ya with us to create this better world. I see them getting the drop on us and then reaming us when we show the appropriate level of weakness. Believe me, I hate that I have this jaundiced worldview. I wish everybody got along and worked for the common good.

But looking at the world and human nature as it seems to me to be, in the world at large and even in major cities here in America, most people are stone selfish, and if you drop your guard they will ream you. I might be willing to take that risk for myself, but I have 2 younger generations of family members who I would not want to subject to that societal risk.

Maybe in 100 years the rest of the planet will be ready to do this thing together, but we can't impose it on the planet. Of course that's just my opinion, and we in the US are closer than we were when I was 18 or 25. But we aren't there yet, and much of the rest of the planet is farther from it than we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clockworkengine

Well first of all the comments weren't directed at you.

Speedy. Lol!

And no I don't expect my "utopian" (i love that word. everyone uses it) ideas to take hold and save our beloved earth. The truth is, as I have been trying to make you all understand since page one of this thread, that I have no idea how to solve the woes of our system. The truth is, in a world where we spend billions on a fake war, if there is a single person without food and shelter then the system is broken.

I don't claim to be "wry" or witty. And once again, I don't have the answers. And neither does anyone on this message board. The person who can solve the problems of the world is going to be someone who rethinks society as a whole in ways that you or I can't even begin to fathom. Someone willing to take risks to pave the way into a true civilizaton for all time. People today are to afraid of losing their possessions or being taken over by terrorists to set in motion the wheels of change.
Here's the skinny. We work our whole lives and what does it get us? A carbon copy red house, a few cars, and children that will go on to build the same house and so on. Today I took a drive through a rich neighborhood and realized that I did not envy any of the people I saw. What does anyone truly have? Like I said before, at your ultimate destination none of that will matter.
Ask yourself if you would be willing to be a part of a global reorganization process if you were convinced that while it would be strange and awkward at first, it would benefit the whole world? I'm telling you, there's a way! I... just don't know what that is. But one day it'll happen. Someone'll be thinking and suddenly like a lightbulb the answers will be, clear and glaring. Something no one's ever thought of. Do you believe that is possible (<- please answer)?

I'm surprised that someone as clearly intelligent and understanding as you could continuously misinterpret my words, Lerxstcat. Here's a few points of clarification for you.
1. I still think wilthril is a racist. I just stopped saying it because he bitched about it so much. I didn't want to hurt his feelings anymore.

If you think you have nothing to learn from me then you're just close-minded
2. I'm sure there's much I could learn from you. Just not about this topic, since we are obviously bumping heads over it.

You lose more loved ones as you go
3. I definitely don't wanna argue about losing loved ones. I've lost a few myself and it sucks.

America is rich, but not infinitely so.
4. America isn't the only country in the world. I'm sure there's room to spare.

Utopian ideals.
5. Heh heh. There's that word again.

speedy
6. That wasn't directed at you, fool!

If you don't see my previous post as an olive branch
7. But I did!

clockworkengine · #54 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007, 11:26 PM

I suppose the only way to do it would be to form a world government. And I'm not entirely certain how people would feel about a real world government. And as far as other countries go, we could twist their religious texts to suggest that their gods approve of a world government and in fact support it.

anoreXic_monkey · #55 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 10:41 AM

solution to the border problem = remove the border

solution to the drug problem = legalize drugs

solution to american ignorance = euthanasia

truthfully now though, i feel like any attempt at a world government would be a disaster... though, ironic in the fact that the only possibility for every man to see eye to eye would be a world-threatoning disaster... only when something more important than one's own arrogance or ignorance comes to play will there be a calm before the storm...

i believe every man has the right to live where they want, they just have to earn it.

clockworkengine · #56 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 11:05 AM

Trudat, Bilbo.

Mikael · #57 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 01:34 PM

Here's the thing. Who's world government are you willing to live under? Mexico's? They've done SO well with their oil and tourism industry. Don't forget how well N.A.F.T.A.'s worked out for them

What is it that makes you all think that foreigners are coming to the U.S. to be contributors to our society? They're not. They are here for totally exploitive reasons.
We have two border patrol agents in jail for shooting at a drug smuggler; a disastrous labor market, caused by our jobs being exported to Mexico, and you still want Mexican influence in our country?!
I'm not sure the gravity of this situation is being fully presented.

clockworkengine · #58 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 03:38 PM

That's a surprisingly one-sided view for you, Mikael. What about the folks who want to be a part of a "free" society and are willing to pay their dues to meet that goal?
And I'm not just talking about Mexicans. I'm talking about the whole world. Besides, don't you think that for a world government to be successful that it would be run by a conglomeration of all world leaders united under one unified goal of world unification (deliberate over use of uni-)? Sort of like the UN except less corrupt and more direct.

Cherry-Bomb Productions · #59 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 04:36 PM

MINEFIELDS ARE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE THAN FENCES...

wilthrill · #60 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007, 05:37 PM

Well Clockwork since you just can't resist let me restate my position (you have continually mischaracterized it. I never, for example, have said anything about the "cleanliness" of immigrants and I have never said with respect to all immigrants "don't let them in")

We should secure the border under terms that we dictate. THAT has been my position all along! When I say we should "shut that border down" I mean we should CONTROL who comes across NOT that we shouldn't allow anyone across. I have NO PROBLEM with someone who wants to come here legally and work. And if they want to stay then they should learn english and assimilate into this great country.

I don't see how it is a "self-serving solution based on fear" to suggest that those who wish to immigrate to this country OBEY THE FUCKING LAW!! I have no "personal" stake in this matter (i.e. I'm not a "coyote" or an American small businessman being put out of work). I won't profit either way. But I do have an interest in leaving a decent country to my children and the last time I check this was still America and we still have the right to express our opinions.

Clockwork then asks Mikael "That's a surprisingly one-sided view for you, Mikael. What about the folks who want to be a part of a "free" society and are willing to pay their dues to meet that goal?"

Clockwork, one "pays one's dues" by coming here LEGALLY. Yes, it is a long laborious process and I'm sure there are things that could be done to improve and speed up the process (If we really NEED all these foreign workers why not expand the VISA program and allow them to come here legally). You can't cut in line in front of all the immigrants who are doing it legally and then talk about having paid your dues!!!

Finally this racist crap. You say you believe it but you are quiet because I bitched about it so much. You know if I were going to call someone a racist I'd at least have ONE STATEMENT of their's that was racist!! I've challenged you at least TWICE now to provide EVEN ONE RACIST statement. So please provide EVEN ONE EXAMPLE of my racism (and no that obvious typo "I don't have Mexicans" doesn't count. Go to page three and the first post where I used the phrase. It was "I don't HATE Mexicans" not "I don't have Mexicans".

So I'm calling you out. Provide even one example of my "racism" or shut the fuck up!!!