Red Dawn

Mikael · 02-15-2007, 05:54 PM

Let's talk a little bit about waking up in a Chinese controlled North America. Would you be a "hardline" commie, or a "leftist" commie? I'm conflicted here. A "hardline" or "conservative" gets to shoot people, while the "leftist" or "liberal" gets to work in factories. Tough choice, I know.

What would you do if you realized that China is rapidly growing economically, militarily, and has the world's largest population-all three areas growing and needing the sustenance of what we have in America?

Would you pay a little extra to buy something NOT made in China?

Lerxstcat · 02-16-2007, 06:37 PM

The problem is, if you're talking about made in USA, it's NOT going to be a little extra; it's going to be a LOT extra.

I don't fear a military takeover of North America by China with the Pacific Ocean and several thousand nuclear weapons protecting us. Not to mention that we have a much bigger and better navy than they do.

As far as the economic ties, I think that while we're buying from them we aren't fighting a war with them, which would be much more expensive in many ways. Everyone thought Japan would buy us up in the 80s and that didn't happen either.

If things got ugly we could always repudiate the debt, tell everyone to fuck off, and retreat into Fortress Western Hemisphere. Let the Russians, the Muslims, the Indians and the EU deal with the China problem. Then Wal-Mart could just build factories in Brazil and Argentina instead.

Mikael · 02-16-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerxstcat

The problem is, if you're talking about made in USA, it's NOT going to be a little extra; it's going to be a LOT extra.

I don't fear a military takeover of North America by China with the Pacific Ocean and several thousand nuclear weapons protecting us. Not to mention that we have a much bigger and better navy than they do.

As far as the economic ties, I think that while we're buying from them we aren't fighting a war with them, which would be much more expensive in many ways. Everyone thought Japan would buy us up in the 80s and that didn't happen either.

If things got ugly we could always repudiate the debt, tell everyone to fuck off, and retreat into Fortress Western Hemisphere. Let the Russians, the Muslims, the Indians and the EU deal with the China problem. Then Wal-Mart could just build factories in Brazil and Argentina instead.

Good points, I'll give you that. But, do you really think that China as the world's leading economic power is not going to uprgrade their military? They can already shoot missles at satellites.

Lerxstcat · 02-16-2007, 07:16 PM

I'm sure they will. But so will we as they do. Our antisatellite technology is 20 years ahead of theirs. I would imagine we have a Plan B if they try shooting down the sats we use for smart bombs and such.

Again we are not the only ones opposing the Chinese militarily. India, Russia, Japan, the EU and NATO, all have reasons to cooperate to contain China's ambitions. Even countries like Iran and Pakistan that buy military tech from China don't want to see the PLA come marching over the mountains to invade their countries. Remember that Russia still has more ICBMs than even we do.
China is not just going to knock over the rest of the planet without a fight.

Also, if China decided it WAS going to fight a war with the US, all those other countries would have to ally with us to stop them. Because iof China DID manage to conquer the US with its nukes and tech, no one else on the planet would have a chance.

Everybody knows these things and if China makes any big military move outside its current borders, the world war would be on . The Chinese heartland would be HEAVILY hit by US and Russian nukes because how else could we counter their numbers? MAD still holds today but since China has a much smaller nuclear arsenal than the US or Russia, China would pretty much be wiped out entirely and we could probably shoot down many or most of theirs. The rest of the world would be pretty much fucked too, but MIGHT survive. China would not.

They don't want to commit suicide of a 5,000-year-old culture.

Krafty Ken · 02-18-2007, 09:35 PM

China needs us to buy their crap. Take the U.S. out of the equation and the goods will sit on the shelves and collect dust. By the way, Red Dawn was the shit!

Mikael · 02-18-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krafty Ken

China needs us to buy their crap. Take the U.S. out of the equation and the goods will sit on the shelves and collect dust. By the way, Red Dawn was the shit!

Correction-China only needs us to buy their shit until they build up their military technology. Communist counties make their subjects their consumers.

Lerxstcat · 02-19-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

Correction-China only needs us to buy their shit until they build up their military technology. Communist counties make their subjects their consumers.

Oh really? Who's going to buy the stuff in China? The convict labor making the stuff? The paid workers making $1 an hour if they're lucky? The command economy system of Communism has been proven a failure by the collapse of the USSR and the capitalization of the PRC.

Unless the PRC comes up with some Star Trek style weapons in a vacuum of the US and Russia not working on the same thing, China's not really going to come up with a military coup that can counter thousands of ICBMs from Russia and the US. China and Russia will always offset each other because Russia has many more nukes and China has many more troops. China wants Siberia and Russia's not giving it up. Stalemate.

But go on with your Yellow Peril self; people have been freaking out about that since about 1951.

wilthrill · 02-26-2007, 06:13 PM

Lerxtcat you assume an all or nothing scenario. "US and Russia will launch nukes to counter all out China agression"

What if they are actually smart enough to take land piece by piece. For example, they decide that they have had enough of that Taiwan and democracy so they invade Taiwan. Do you honestly think the US or Russia, for that matter, is willing to launch nukes over Taiwan. We won't and every president since Jimmy Carter has pretty much said as much. Factor into that equation that the Chinese have the capability of hitting LA with a nuke attack of their own and there is no way we will intervene. So WHERE exactly will we draw the line?

If not Taiwan then what about the Phillipines or any other territory in the south pacific? How about Hawaii?

No this will NOT happen tommorrow and the real threat is probably twenty to thirty years down the road but it is not being in the throngs of the "yellow peril" to recognize a future enemy when one sees him.

Mikael · 02-26-2007, 10:19 PM

The point is that China doesn't need consumers for very long. After they run out of resources and have nothing more to sell...well, they're going to start looking for resources. They are going to blame the U.S. for not buying their products anymore and for hoarding natural resources. Of course by then we won't be the "U.S." any longer, we'll be the North American Union, we'll speak a mixture of Spanish and French and our "Windtalkers" will probably be Cajuns.

wilthrill · 02-27-2007, 06:07 PM

Cajun "windtalkers". I like that. They'd be good cause as long as I lived there I never could understand them.

02-15-2007, 05:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mikael Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Down In a Hole Posts: 905 Rep Power: 45	Red Dawn Let's talk a little bit about waking up in a Chinese controlled North America. Would you be a "hardline" commie, or a "leftist" commie? I'm conflicted here. A "hardline" or "conservative" gets to shoot people, while the "leftist" or "liberal" gets to work in factories. Tough choice, I know. What would you do if you realized that China is rapidly growing economically, militarily, and has the world's largest population-all three areas growing and needing the sustenance of what we have in America? Would you pay a little extra to buy something NOT made in China? __________________ I just saved a ton of money on car insurance by switching to no car insurance!!! www.myspace.com/13468360 Last edited by Mikael; 02-15-2007 at 06:00 PM. Reason: I don't need a reason. It's not in real time. Oh, and I'm Rick Jame's cousin. Enjoy yourselve's, bitches.

02-18-2007, 09:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Krafty Ken Fawkin' Newbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 0	China needs us to buy their crap. Take the U.S. out of the equation and the goods will sit on the shelves and collect dust. By the way, Red Dawn was the shit! __________________ End the occupation from Iraq to Palestine!Does not include Tibet, Hong Kong, Lebanon, or anyone else under Communist or Islamic subjugation. They need to stop bitching. Last edited by Krafty Ken; 02-18-2007 at 09:44 PM.*

02-26-2007, 10:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mikael Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Down In a Hole Posts: 905 Rep Power: 45	The point is that China doesn't need consumers for very long. After they run out of resources and have nothing more to sell...well, they're going to start looking for resources. They are going to blame the U.S. for not buying their products anymore and for hoarding natural resources. Of course by then we won't be the "U.S." any longer, we'll be the North American Union, we'll speak a mixture of Spanish and French and our "Windtalkers" will probably be Cajuns. __________________ I just saved a ton of money on car insurance by switching to no car insurance!!! www.myspace.com/13468360

02-16-2007, 06:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lerxstcat Band Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 531 Rep Power: 24	The problem is, if you're talking about made in USA, it's NOT going to be a little extra; it's going to be a LOT extra. I don't fear a military takeover of North America by China with the Pacific Ocean and several thousand nuclear weapons protecting us. Not to mention that we have a much bigger and better navy than they do. As far as the economic ties, I think that while we're buying from them we aren't fighting a war with them, which would be much more expensive in many ways. Everyone thought Japan would buy us up in the 80s and that didn't happen either. If things got ugly we could always repudiate the debt, tell everyone to fuck off, and retreat into Fortress Western Hemisphere. Let the Russians, the Muslims, the Indians and the EU deal with the China problem. Then Wal-Mart could just build factories in Brazil and Argentina instead.

02-16-2007, 07:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lerxstcat Band Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 531 Rep Power: 24	I'm sure they will. But so will we as they do. Our antisatellite technology is 20 years ahead of theirs. I would imagine we have a Plan B if they try shooting down the sats we use for smart bombs and such. Again we are not the only ones opposing the Chinese militarily. India, Russia, Japan, the EU and NATO, all have reasons to cooperate to contain China's ambitions. Even countries like Iran and Pakistan that buy military tech from China don't want to see the PLA come marching over the mountains to invade their countries. Remember that Russia still has more ICBMs than even we do. China is not just going to knock over the rest of the planet without a fight. Also, if China decided it WAS going to fight a war with the US, all those other countries would have to ally with us to stop them. Because iof China DID manage to conquer the US with its nukes and tech, no one else on the planet would have a chance. Everybody knows these things and if China makes any big military move outside its current borders, the world war would be on . The Chinese heartland would be HEAVILY hit by US and Russian nukes because how else could we counter their numbers? MAD still holds today but since China has a much smaller nuclear arsenal than the US or Russia, China would pretty much be wiped out entirely and we could probably shoot down many or most of theirs. The rest of the world would be pretty much fucked too, but MIGHT survive. China would not. They don't want to commit suicide of a 5,000-year-old culture.

02-26-2007, 06:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 823 Rep Power: 46	Lerxtcat you assume an all or nothing scenario. "US and Russia will launch nukes to counter all out China agression" What if they are actually smart enough to take land piece by piece. For example, they decide that they have had enough of that Taiwan and democracy so they invade Taiwan. Do you honestly think the US or Russia, for that matter, is willing to launch nukes over Taiwan. We won't and every president since Jimmy Carter has pretty much said as much. Factor into that equation that the Chinese have the capability of hitting LA with a nuke attack of their own and there is no way we will intervene. So WHERE exactly will we draw the line? If not Taiwan then what about the Phillipines or any other territory in the south pacific? How about Hawaii? No this will NOT happen tommorrow and the real threat is probably twenty to thirty years down the road but it is not being in the throngs of the "yellow peril" to recognize a future enemy when one sees him.

02-27-2007, 06:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 823 Rep Power: 46	Cajun "windtalkers". I like that. They'd be good cause as long as I lived there I never could understand them.