so what really happened to free speech

junkernaut · 04-10-2007, 01:42 AM

so anyone who knows me, knows that im a major advocate of free speech. so its with a very heavy heart that i notice how freedom of speech has eroded.
we might not have govt regulated speech, but we certainly dont have real freedom of speech. the most recent example is the Imus case. now ill admit that what he said was horrible, and not very well thought out, but under our constitution, he's legally able to say it without official reprisals. yet he's been suspended for 2 weeks, pending further action. and the so called heavily christian people refuse to forgive him.....which is a huge hypocrisy in my eyes.

but yet certain groups of people have cart blanche with what they say, with very little action, if any, being taken.

what does this say for our society.

*disclaimer*
i dont care that the black community has the right to say what they want about the white, asian or hispanic communities. i care that its not the same for the others....
it should all be equal.
if you dont like what someone has to say, change your radio station, tv station or website.
or actually have a real talk with sed person. it might actually work better. just my opinion

Razz · 04-10-2007, 08:44 AM

I think it has less to do with freedom of speach and more with what you said towards the end, "If you don't like what someone has to say, change your radio station, tvstation or website." If that is all people would do, he would still probably be reprimanded simply because that is less listeners. And what broadcasting company wants that? But not only that, the broadcasting company has to deal with all the reprocussions that are involved with a situation such as this. So they show the public that he does not share the same views as the broadcasting company (because we all know they will only play it safe) they reprimand him. They don't fire him, though, because they also know that people will listen just so they can get pissed off again.

Although, yes, it is deffinetly restriction of our freedom of speech.

clockworkengine · 04-10-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spert

it all changes when you broadcast your opinion over the airwaves.

Yeah. And when you're around a police officer.

There could never be free speech. Free speech in the constitution in my opinion is just there for looks. What if there were free speech? You'd be having meetings in public places voting on the best way to proceed with the overthrow of the government.
And you can't publicly criticize your leaders. Ben Marble'll tell you all about that (ask him about "Lobo", his cellmate)!

wilthrill · 04-10-2007, 06:26 PM

Well junkernaut I agree some and disagree some. First the constituion prohibits the GOV'T from silencing free speech (subject to a few exceptions like yelling fire in a crowded theater). It most certainly does NOT, in any way shape or form, prevent a private company from silencing speech. We all work and we all know that we can't say what we really think a lot of the times (my boss is an idiot) without repercussions.
So... if MSNBC is getting a lot of complaints (free speech in action) and decides to respond to its more vocal customers then I don't have a problem with that.

I also don't have a problem with the Rutgers basketball players, family, friends and supporters voicing their disgust, protesting or trying to get him fired. Free speech goes both ways.

I DO however have a problem with the double standard. First, this charge against Imus is being led by two of the most blatantly racist men in America (Sharpton and Jackson). If they have the right to be "outraged" and call Imus a racist, then Hitler should be moralizing about the anti-semitism of others.

Second, as I heard someone on the radio say, "Imus got in trouble for trying to use ebonics without a license". That is true. Imus must be crucified for referring to the Rutgers team as "nappy-heady ho's" and RAPPERS say much worse in many of their songs. Hell, the rappers talk about killin' and (well I can't print it on this site) their bitches and ho's.

It is a bullshit double-standard and quite frankly makes me think twice about ANY charge of racism coming from the drive-by media.

wilthrill · 04-11-2007, 04:25 PM

And maybe it's just me but another troubling thing was the Rutger's women's press conference. It sounded so much like a seminar in victimization!! "I'm so hurt by this.."

It was a rude ignorant COMMENT for god's sake. I try to put myself in their position and here is what I think I would say, "I'm not a nappy-headed ho. That comment is offensive, I resent it and Mr Imus is obviously an ignorant asshole!"

I would not be talking about how emotionally vulnerable I was or how it "hurt my feelings". Maybe I'm just too much of a man but to hear people talking in lawsuit terminology about a COMMENT during the very week the Duke Lacrosse players were finally exxonerated is a bit much. THOSE GUYS can talk about having their lives destroyed and being emotionally devastated after what that out-of-control political hack so-called "prosecutor" and his willing allies in the drive-by media cheered on by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, did to THEM!!! But I digress. I'll start another thread on Duke.

Am I alone here or is anyone else uneasy with this rush to victimhood???

Krafty Ken · 04-13-2007, 01:17 AM

I'm going to right a book called "What white people are allowed to say" Being that there seems to be a double standard in the free speech department for whites.

putzdaddy · 04-13-2007, 09:33 AM

Look, the simple fact is if white people had never hauled black people over here on boats and then subsequently oppressed them for years we wouldn't be having this discussion. I know we weren't the ones who did it, but only 40-something years ago that oppression was in full swing. That's not that long ago. People are alive today who remember that shit like it was yesterday. It doesn't matter what black people say to one another or what's in rap lyrics, white people can't say that shit on the radio because of our past. And who are we as white men (besides Razz) to say what a black woman should feel when she is publicly called something derrogatory by a white man. And don't kid yourself, being called a "nappy-headed ho" is derrogatory, period. Imus is a big mouthed idiot who's getting what he deserves. Maybe someday we can put all of the past behind us and move forward but shit like this isn't going to help other than open the discussion of race and talk about how to move on together. We can't move on seperately, we'll just keep pulling our tribes closer together and not accept the views of others. Once again...unity

PITBOSS · 04-13-2007, 11:40 AM

So when's Sharpton going to apologize to the Duke Lacrosse team?

I disagree that white people can't say stuff like Imus did. It was a joke, pretty funny in my view. Jokes on the racial subject are everywhere, it's just Chris Rock, or Carlos Mencia that can get away with it. Why? they are minorities. The black man was shipped to many countries for slave labor. I did not do it. There is no white guilt in me.

putzdaddy · 04-13-2007, 01:25 PM

I wasn't saying that we owe anyone anything nor should we have guilt, I'm just stating that because shit has gone down the way it has, that's the way the state of affairs is. I don't think that my man should have even been fired because freedom of speech is supposed to be for everyone. All that said, there are repurcussions when you say such things in a public forum. He was fired due to sponsorship bail-outs. It had nothing really to do with race so much as it had to do with $$$. I agree with ya'll in the sense that we shouldn't have to pay anyone back or cow-tow to anyone because of past transgressions by mf'ers years ago. I've never oppressed anyone. If those girls would have been involved in some high profile, shady shit it wouldn't have gone this far, but they are a group of college girls and that makes a difference. Oh yeah, and everyone involved has an agenda so it's a battle of agendas. Everyone's looking for clear lines and unilateral rules for all, but they don't fit in our society. There are different rules for everyone regardless of race and class. That's just the way it is. I think that firing Imus does set a dangerous precedent for freedom of speech. But at the same time you've got to be smarter than that, and in hearing other shit he's said I don't think he is.

I agree, Jesse Jackson should apologize to those Duke fellas. There hasn't been enough outcry against him. All he knows how to do is start fires and haul ass. And alot of black folks know that.

The Good Reverend, MATCHEW · 04-14-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krafty Ken

I'm going to right a book called "What white people are allowed to say" Being that there seems to be a double standard in the free speech department for whites.

yes indeed.

04-10-2007, 01:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
junkernaut Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 46	so what really happened to free speech so anyone who knows me, knows that im a major advocate of free speech. so its with a very heavy heart that i notice how freedom of speech has eroded. we might not have govt regulated speech, but we certainly dont have real freedom of speech. the most recent example is the Imus case. now ill admit that what he said was horrible, and not very well thought out, but under our constitution, he's legally able to say it without official reprisals. yet he's been suspended for 2 weeks, pending further action. and the so called heavily christian people refuse to forgive him.....which is a huge hypocrisy in my eyes. but yet certain groups of people have cart blanche with what they say, with very little action, if any, being taken. what does this say for our society. disclaimer i dont care that the black community has the right to say what they want about the white, asian or hispanic communities. i care that its not the same for the others.... it should all be equal. if you dont like what someone has to say, change your radio station, tv station or website. or actually have a real talk with sed person. it might actually work better. just my opinion __________________ jesus had a great publicist

04-13-2007, 01:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
Krafty Ken Fawkin' Newbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 0	I'm going to right a book called "What white people are allowed to say" Being that there seems to be a double standard in the free speech department for whites. __________________ End the occupation from Iraq to Palestine!*Does not include Tibet, Hong Kong, Lebanon, or anyone else under Communist or Islamic subjugation. They need to stop bitching.

04-13-2007, 09:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
putzdaddy Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the GPT Posts: 368 Rep Power: 35	Look, the simple fact is if white people had never hauled black people over here on boats and then subsequently oppressed them for years we wouldn't be having this discussion. I know we weren't the ones who did it, but only 40-something years ago that oppression was in full swing. That's not that long ago. People are alive today who remember that shit like it was yesterday. It doesn't matter what black people say to one another or what's in rap lyrics, white people can't say that shit on the radio because of our past. And who are we as white men (besides Razz) to say what a black woman should feel when she is publicly called something derrogatory by a white man. And don't kid yourself, being called a "nappy-headed ho" is derrogatory, period. Imus is a big mouthed idiot who's getting what he deserves. Maybe someday we can put all of the past behind us and move forward but shit like this isn't going to help other than open the discussion of race and talk about how to move on together. We can't move on seperately, we'll just keep pulling our tribes closer together and not accept the views of others. Once again...unity __________________ metal health will drive you mad!!! www.myspace.com/bestleftunsaid

04-13-2007, 01:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
putzdaddy Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the GPT Posts: 368 Rep Power: 35	I wasn't saying that we owe anyone anything nor should we have guilt, I'm just stating that because shit has gone down the way it has, that's the way the state of affairs is. I don't think that my man should have even been fired because freedom of speech is supposed to be for everyone. All that said, there are repurcussions when you say such things in a public forum. He was fired due to sponsorship bail-outs. It had nothing really to do with race so much as it had to do with $$$. I agree with ya'll in the sense that we shouldn't have to pay anyone back or cow-tow to anyone because of past transgressions by mf'ers years ago. I've never oppressed anyone. If those girls would have been involved in some high profile, shady shit it wouldn't have gone this far, but they are a group of college girls and that makes a difference. Oh yeah, and everyone involved has an agenda so it's a battle of agendas. Everyone's looking for clear lines and unilateral rules for all, but they don't fit in our society. There are different rules for everyone regardless of race and class. That's just the way it is. I think that firing Imus does set a dangerous precedent for freedom of speech. But at the same time you've got to be smarter than that, and in hearing other shit he's said I don't think he is. I agree, Jesse Jackson should apologize to those Duke fellas. There hasn't been enough outcry against him. All he knows how to do is start fires and haul ass. And alot of black folks know that. __________________ metal health will drive you mad!!! www.myspace.com/bestleftunsaid

04-10-2007, 08:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
Razz Productive GCB Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Age: 29 Posts: 1,173 Rep Power: 47	I think it has less to do with freedom of speach and more with what you said towards the end, "If you don't like what someone has to say, change your radio station, tvstation or website." If that is all people would do, he would still probably be reprimanded simply because that is less listeners. And what broadcasting company wants that? But not only that, the broadcasting company has to deal with all the reprocussions that are involved with a situation such as this. So they show the public that he does not share the same views as the broadcasting company (because we all know they will only play it safe) they reprimand him. They don't fire him, though, because they also know that people will listen just so they can get pissed off again. Although, yes, it is deffinetly restriction of our freedom of speech.

04-10-2007, 06:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 825 Rep Power: 46	Well junkernaut I agree some and disagree some. First the constituion prohibits the GOV'T from silencing free speech (subject to a few exceptions like yelling fire in a crowded theater). It most certainly does NOT, in any way shape or form, prevent a private company from silencing speech. We all work and we all know that we can't say what we really think a lot of the times (my boss is an idiot) without repercussions. So... if MSNBC is getting a lot of complaints (free speech in action) and decides to respond to its more vocal customers then I don't have a problem with that. I also don't have a problem with the Rutgers basketball players, family, friends and supporters voicing their disgust, protesting or trying to get him fired. Free speech goes both ways. I DO however have a problem with the double standard. First, this charge against Imus is being led by two of the most blatantly racist men in America (Sharpton and Jackson). If they have the right to be "outraged" and call Imus a racist, then Hitler should be moralizing about the anti-semitism of others. Second, as I heard someone on the radio say, "Imus got in trouble for trying to use ebonics without a license". That is true. Imus must be crucified for referring to the Rutgers team as "nappy-heady ho's" and RAPPERS say much worse in many of their songs. Hell, the rappers talk about killin' and (well I can't print it on this site) their bitches and ho's. It is a bullshit double-standard and quite frankly makes me think twice about ANY charge of racism coming from the drive-by media.

04-11-2007, 04:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 825 Rep Power: 46	And maybe it's just me but another troubling thing was the Rutger's women's press conference. It sounded so much like a seminar in victimization!! "I'm so hurt by this.." It was a rude ignorant COMMENT for god's sake. I try to put myself in their position and here is what I think I would say, "I'm not a nappy-headed ho. That comment is offensive, I resent it and Mr Imus is obviously an ignorant asshole!" I would not be talking about how emotionally vulnerable I was or how it "hurt my feelings". Maybe I'm just too much of a man but to hear people talking in lawsuit terminology about a COMMENT during the very week the Duke Lacrosse players were finally exxonerated is a bit much. THOSE GUYS can talk about having their lives destroyed and being emotionally devastated after what that out-of-control political hack so-called "prosecutor" and his willing allies in the drive-by media cheered on by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, did to THEM!!! But I digress. I'll start another thread on Duke. Am I alone here or is anyone else uneasy with this rush to victimhood???

04-13-2007, 11:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
PITBOSS Band Whore Join Date: May 2005 Location: Grand Bay Age: 33 Posts: 309 Rep Power: 41	So when's Sharpton going to apologize to the Duke Lacrosse team? I disagree that white people can't say stuff like Imus did. It was a joke, pretty funny in my view. Jokes on the racial subject are everywhere, it's just Chris Rock, or Carlos Mencia that can get away with it. Why? they are minorities. The black man was shipped to many countries for slave labor. I did not do it. There is no white guilt in me.