Super Prosecutor and Scooter Libby

wilthrill · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 06:15 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070305/...cia_leak_trial

Turns out the jury is still out in the Scooter Libby trial.

Some of you weren't at the previous incarnation of this board when we first discussed special prosecutor Fitzgerald and the Valerie Plame affair. Just to bring you up to speed, the typical argument for those who favored investigating the Plame affair was that Fitzgerald was as honest as the day is long. He was totally non-partisian, could walk on water and, in short, was the best man for the job. At the time, I knew nothing about Fitzgerald and confined my arguments to the merits of the case.( specifically, it was ridiculous because Valerie's HUSBAND outed her long before anyone at the White House. Furthermore she had been on the cover of Vanity Fair TWO YEARS PRIOR and the article was about Joe Wilson and his SPY wife)

Well now we have a little more to judge Fitzgerald on. So are any of you uncomfortable with the FACT that when Fitzgerald BEGAN his investigation he KNEW who leaked Plame's name (Richard Armitage) and decided to continue "investigating" more even though, as Inspector Cleuseau (sp) would say, "the crime is sol-ved".

You know super-prosecutor or not, I thought that when we solved the "crime" (found the "leaker") we MIGHT have wanted to bring charges against him or perhaps ASK him more questions etc. But apparently to be a super prosecutor in democratic eyes we just continue investigating, all the while HIDING THE FACT THAT WE KNOW WHO DID IT and then prosecute ANYONE who says he doesn't remember in response to any of our questions.

Oh, and ps, you guys do know that when called in front of the Senate during the Clinton years, Hillary said "I don't remember" literally HUNDREDS of times.

Mikael · #2 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 12:10 AM

Yeah, I was there. We argued this before. Wil, I don't recall your exact argument, but, I do recall that the prosecutor was the least of the story. Yeah, I'm ashamed. If the Republicans and Kenneth Star could divert Clinton from pursuing Al Qaeda, and all we Dems can do is go after the V.P.'s chief of Staff, well, do I need to go on?

wilthrill · #3 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 06:31 PM

Well Mikael, where to start?

Well since this thread is about Libby/Fitzgerald....

A jury found Libby guilty of lying to the FBI (perjury) and obstruction of justice. First and foremost, I don't know a lot of specifics about the actual trial (our drive-by media was too busy covering that dead horse (Barbaro or whatever) and Anna Nicole Simpson) so take this with a grain of salt. Allegedly Libby's defense sought to introduce evidence that no crime was commited in the Valerie Plame affair (she wasn't covert and she had already been "outed" by herself, her husband and Richard Armitage of the state dept). The trial judge would not let it in. I'm not Perry Mason or even Matlock, but it seems to me that in a case of perjury where one of the ELEMENTS of the crime is that you lied about a MATERIAL fact, evidence tending to show that it was NOT a material fact would be admissable. I'm sure Libby's lawyers will pursue this on appeal.

But, as of today, he's guilty of perjury and obstruction so he's gets his appeal but he should be sentenced, possibly jailed etc.

Now to Clinton, perhaps I'm just hallucinating but surely you aren't arguing that Clinton did nothing against the terrorists solely because of Ken Starr. For that to be true we must assume Clinton was foaiming at the mouth trying to get Bin Laden/terrorists and that evil Ken Starr stopped him. For the record, about the ONLY thing Clinton did in response to the terrorists was to lob a few Tomahawks at an aspirin factory in the Sudan and he did this ONE DAY before Monica Lewinski testified in front of the Senate. So, if anything, Starr influenced Clinton to confront the terrorists even those it was a measly half-hearted misguided attempt!

Please!!!! Clinton didn't face down the terrorists because he was too worried about his poll numbers! He had NUMEROUS (at least ten) opportunities to take out Bin Laden but didn't have the political guts to do so because he was afraid of civilian causualties or in one case of "alarming" Pakistan whose airspace the missile to kill Bin Laden would have flown through.

Furthermore I'd point out that unlike the Clinton Kool-Aid drinkers of yesterday, I am actually saying Libby was convicted and should be punished if his appeals fail. When Hillary was saying "I don't remember' literally hundreds of times in front of the Senate and Bill was debating the meaning of the word "is", the Kool-Aid drinkers were saying they shouldn't be punished. I remember their arguments well. "Bill Clinton was HONEST when he said he and Monica weren't ALONE because after all there are other people in the world" or "It depends on what the word IS means" or "yeah, those Rose Law firm billing records just 'showed up' in the White House bedroom two years after they were requested in a lawsuit and no that was not obstruction of justice".

Libby has been found guilty and pending appeal should be punished. Bill and Hillary were just as guilty, if not more, and they should be punished. Yes, it is a pipe-dream to hope that liberals could be fair but at least I am consistent!

Oh, and ps, for all those hatas out there who are going to try to say, "why do you bring up Clinton?', I'd point out that Mikael brought up Clinton, not I!!

Mikael · #4 (**permalink**) 03-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Yes, I did.
It looks like Libby was the "Fall Guy" and not in the cool Lee Majors way. Dick Cheney may be the one really responsible for what happened, but he's way too high up the food chain to ever be prosecuted.

Krafty Ken · #5 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 05:20 AM

What is Dick Cheney responsible for? This trial was such a witch hunt and is a travesty of justice. I cannot believe the spin the liberal media is putting on this. Joe Wilson is liar, everyone knows it, yet he was never put under oath. Disgusting! So disgusting!

Mikael · #6 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 07:42 AM

What has Joe Wilson lied about? This whole thing started because the Neo Cons wanted so badly to find evidence of Iraq's WMD/Uranium enrichment program that they set Joe Wilson up for a fall-all because he could prove them wrong.

putzdaddy · #7 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 02:08 PM

All dems are bad-all cons are good...
By the way was FOX covering this story? I know that their not controlled by the dems like all of the rest of all media in the U.S., according to you. I'm curious as to how much time they gave this story if it is indeed being pushed aside by the "liberal media". Do you realize how ineffective all of this "he lied/she lied" politics are? We've got to unite if we are to overcome. It's the only way. That's not opinion that's the cold, hard truth. We don't have to agree on everything...hell, that's utterly impossible...but we all have one very important thing in common- we all live here and have a stake in whatever decisions are made by whomever is in power. Bickering, backbiting and fingerpointing doesn't solve shit. I know we are never going to have agenda-free politics but for God's sake we have got to unite or we are doomed.
All politicians lie... dem or con, fact.

Mikael · #8 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by putzdaddy

All dems are bad-all cons are good...
By the way was FOX covering this story? I know that their not controlled by the dems like all of the rest of all media in the U.S., according to you. I'm curious as to how much time they gave this story if it is indeed being pushed aside by the "liberal media". Do you realize how ineffective all of this "he lied/she lied" politics are? We've got to unite if we are to overcome. It's the only way. That's not opinion that's the cold, hard truth. We don't have to agree on everything...hell, that's utterly impossible...but we all have one very important thing in common- we all live here and have a stake in whatever decisions are made by whomever is in power. Bickering, backbiting and fingerpointing doesn't solve shit. I know we are never going to have agenda-free politics but for God's sake we have got to unite or we are doomed.
All politicians lie... dem or con, fact.

You are so right! Wilthrill and I go back and forth all the time-because we can. God Bless America-it's a place where we can bitch and moan and still get the job done on time

Krafty Ken · #9 (**permalink**) 03-10-2007, 09:44 AM

Joe Wilson took a trip to Niger to investigate claims of Saddam attempting to purchase yellowcake uranium for the Iraqi nuclear program. Upon returning, Wilson wrote an op-ed piece in the New York Times stating that Saddam had not attempted to purchase uranium from Niger and that Dick Cheney's office had sent him on this fact finding mission. Lie #1) Wilson was sent on the trip by his wife, Valerie Plame, not Dick Cheney. What the hell was Wilson thinking? I'll just say the Vice President sent me on this trip and no one will call me on it? Lie #2) Saddam had in fact attempted to purchase uranium from Niger as this was verified by a bi-partisan senate committee. So the white house criticism and skepticism of the Wilson report was more then warranted. What Scooter Libby said about Wilson and Plame were the truth, but after an interrogation marathon the man couldn't remember who he told what to and when. What did you eat last tuesday for dinner and what time did you eat it? And we expect the Vice President's chief of staff to recall conversations he had MONTHS ago?

wilthrill · #10 (**permalink**) 03-12-2007, 05:00 PM

Furthermore, Krafty Ken, it was Joe Wilson who revealed his wife's identity as CIA!!! He did so in a Vanity Fair article two years PRIOR to Libby even mentioning her.