What to do When Religion wants to kill you?

wilthrill · 05-25-2007, 10:53 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/...slim_americans

1 in 4 US muslims under age thirty say suicide bombing justified to defend Islam.

Even more shocking from the article:

"Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In Pew surveys last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France.

"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam."

I thinks it begs credibility to maintain that somewhere in the neighborhood of 35% of muslims WORLDWIDE constitutes a few "crazies just like other faiths have them".

But let's not confine our argument to muslims. What do you do in a country that values freedom of religion when a religion, or a very large part of it, has at it's core beliefs the idea that one must convert to that religion or die? Understand these people don't just want to be left alone to practice their faith. THAT would present little problem. No, these people want YOU to practice their faith or they are justified in MURDERING you. So, do you just allow them to continue their preparations to kill the infidels?

You know the US Constitution is many things but it is not a suicide pact!!
Therefore, my position is that if you wish to practice a religion it is NONE of my business UNLESS that "religion" is promoting my destruction in which case you shouldn't be allowed to practice it here OR I should be allowed to defend myself in a manner less brutal than that which you would adopt (i.e. I'd kill those trying to kill me as opposed to killing innocent women and children).

So, do we have some totally unfettered "right" to practice any "religion" even if it requires the killing of others? And, if not, are we ever going to do anything about those who do BEFORE we end up having to kill roughly 300 million people?

junkernaut · 05-25-2007, 01:47 PM

although i see the point of this thread wil, ill go ahead and say this....since the title is what to do when religion wants to kill you, ill say ask the ancient mayans and aztecs....thats right you cant, they were destroyed by the conquistadors and the spanish clergymen that came with them. or maybe you can ask the original indigenous population of hawaii.....no most of them were destroyed or killed off the disease carrying calvinists that nearly desytroyed their culture. ask the pagans of ancient europe, nope most of them were forcibly converted to christianity. we wont even go into the various inquistitions and countless bothched missionary movements. my point is that islam doesnt have exclusivity rights on religious atrocities and tunnel vision...theyre just the latest

junkernaut · 05-25-2007, 01:50 PM

i personally detest any religion that claims to be the only way and that forces their beliefs on anyone who doesnt comply.....and thats been nearly every religion in existence so far....few exceptions of course.

i feel bad for those who actually sincerely follow and believe the real tenats of their chosen faith....these zealots and hate and fear mongers have made these very hard on those good people who actually live the way claim too

putzdaddy · 05-25-2007, 01:59 PM

What do you suggest be done, Will?

clone9 · 05-25-2007, 03:41 PM

the busheep are no different than the Islamics
FUK ISLAM and FUK THE PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS

Mikael · 05-25-2007, 04:03 PM

From the Qu'ran. The Cow, suras (verses) 8-12.

8. "Of the people, there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the last day:" but they do no really believe.
9. "Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize it not!
10. "In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: and grievous is the chastisement they incur, because they lied to themselves.
11. "When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth", they say: "We are only ones that put things right."
12. "Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realize it not.

putzdaddy · 05-25-2007, 04:55 PM

Good shit, Mike...

Mikael · 05-25-2007, 05:53 PM

Thank you, sir.

wilthrill · 05-26-2007, 10:22 PM

Well I'd suggest (referencing junkernaut's first post) that we NOT behave like the Mayans or Aztecs. The aztecs are a GREAT example junkernaut. You had a civilization of roughly twenty MILLION who ALLOWED 500 conquistadors to land and start talking to the natives. TWO YEARS later those conquistadors allied with many who disliked the Aztecs brought the Aztec civilization down.

We are allowing those who WANT to kill us to set up shop in THIS COUNTRY and preach their HATRED unfetterred. They are preaching this hatred in mosques in DEARBORN MICHIGAN for god's sake. We are ALLOWING a terrorist front group called CAIR (counsel on american islamic relations) to not only OPERATE here but to SUE (in our courts) airlines that have the nerve to remove suspicious passengers (the flying imans). In fact, the DEMOCRATS are killing a bill that would protect people who report suspicious behavior (which is what the gov't ASKED citizens to do in the wake of 911 etc)from being SUED!!! And we are so afraid to offend anyone that granny is getting searched more at the airport than Mustafa when we all know DAMN WELL that a thirty year-old arabic male presents far more a threat than an 80 year-old granny!

I'm suggesting we wake the fuck up and confront REALITY and reality is that a very large number of muslims (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 million or more) want to kill us. John Edwards can talk about bumper striker slogans all he wants but make no mistake THEY ARE AT WAR WITH US whether we choose to admit it or not.

I'd also ask that Clone or anyone else on this board show me even ONE relatively mainstream chrtistian or one person who proports to speak for christianity who is maintianing that we should KILL those who don't convert to christianity. There are christians who believe they are right and those who disagree are going to hell. But I know of none who maintain that THEY have the right to send them to hell. THAT is a material difference! The christians are not CURRENTLY (in this century) maintaining that they have the right to kill unbelievers. The muslims are!!!

And folks WE are the unbelievers.

junkernaut · 05-26-2007, 11:05 PM

well i believe jerry falwell made some comments to that effect, pat robertson has made comments on more than one occasion......al sharpton has made his little innuendos.....theyve never been as blatent as lets say al sadr or bin laden, but if you understand subtext and reading between the lines, and i know that youre an extremely intelligent man wil, or else i wouldnt even bother with you, then you can hear just as much hateful and violent rhetoric as some of these islamic extremists.....they just do in 3 piece suits instead of burqas, hijabs and turbans.

05-25-2007, 10:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	What to do When Religion wants to kill you? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/...slim_americans 1 in 4 US muslims under age thirty say suicide bombing justified to defend Islam. Even more shocking from the article: "Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In Pew surveys last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France. "We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam." I thinks it begs credibility to maintain that somewhere in the neighborhood of 35% of muslims WORLDWIDE constitutes a few "crazies just like other faiths have them". But let's not confine our argument to muslims. What do you do in a country that values freedom of religion when a religion, or a very large part of it, has at it's core beliefs the idea that one must convert to that religion or die? Understand these people don't just want to be left alone to practice their faith. THAT would present little problem. No, these people want YOU to practice their faith or they are justified in MURDERING you. So, do you just allow them to continue their preparations to kill the infidels? You know the US Constitution is many things but it is not a suicide pact!! Therefore, my position is that if you wish to practice a religion it is NONE of my business UNLESS that "religion" is promoting my destruction in which case you shouldn't be allowed to practice it here OR I should be allowed to defend myself in a manner less brutal than that which you would adopt (i.e. I'd kill those trying to kill me as opposed to killing innocent women and children). So, do we have some totally unfettered "right" to practice any "religion" even if it requires the killing of others? And, if not, are we ever going to do anything about those who do BEFORE we end up having to kill roughly 300 million people?

05-25-2007, 01:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
junkernaut Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 44	although i see the point of this thread wil, ill go ahead and say this....since the title is what to do when religion wants to kill you, ill say ask the ancient mayans and aztecs....thats right you cant, they were destroyed by the conquistadors and the spanish clergymen that came with them. or maybe you can ask the original indigenous population of hawaii.....no most of them were destroyed or killed off the disease carrying calvinists that nearly desytroyed their culture. ask the pagans of ancient europe, nope most of them were forcibly converted to christianity. we wont even go into the various inquistitions and countless bothched missionary movements. my point is that islam doesnt have exclusivity rights on religious atrocities and tunnel vision...theyre just the latest __________________ jesus had a great publicist

05-25-2007, 01:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
junkernaut Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 44	i personally detest any religion that claims to be the only way and that forces their beliefs on anyone who doesnt comply.....and thats been nearly every religion in existence so far....few exceptions of course. i feel bad for those who actually sincerely follow and believe the real tenats of their chosen faith....these zealots and hate and fear mongers have made these very hard on those good people who actually live the way claim too __________________ jesus had a great publicist

05-25-2007, 01:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
putzdaddy Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the GPT Posts: 368 Rep Power: 33	What do you suggest be done, Will? __________________ metal health will drive you mad!!! www.myspace.com/bestleftunsaid

05-25-2007, 03:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
clone9 Band Member Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: earth Age: 96 Posts: 173 Rep Power: 44	well the busheep are no different than the Islamics FUK ISLAM and FUK THE PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS __________________ "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"-Dubya Gump “Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.”

05-25-2007, 04:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mikael Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Down In a Hole Posts: 905 Rep Power: 43	From the Qu'ran. The Cow, suras (verses) 8-12. 8. "Of the people, there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the last day:" but they do no really believe. 9. "Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize it not! 10. "In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: and grievous is the chastisement they incur, because they lied to themselves. 11. "When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth", they say: "We are only ones that put things right." 12. "Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realize it not. __________________ I just saved a ton of money on car insurance by switching to no car insurance!!! www.myspace.com/13468360 Last edited by Mikael; 05-25-2007 at 04:05 PM.

05-25-2007, 04:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
putzdaddy Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the GPT Posts: 368 Rep Power: 33	Good shit, Mike... __________________ metal health will drive you mad!!! www.myspace.com/bestleftunsaid

05-25-2007, 05:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mikael Band Member Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Down In a Hole Posts: 905 Rep Power: 43	Thank you, sir. __________________ I just saved a ton of money on car insurance by switching to no car insurance!!! www.myspace.com/13468360

05-26-2007, 10:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
wilthrill Band Whore Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 818 Rep Power: 44	Well I'd suggest (referencing junkernaut's first post) that we NOT behave like the Mayans or Aztecs. The aztecs are a GREAT example junkernaut. You had a civilization of roughly twenty MILLION who ALLOWED 500 conquistadors to land and start talking to the natives. TWO YEARS later those conquistadors allied with many who disliked the Aztecs brought the Aztec civilization down. We are allowing those who WANT to kill us to set up shop in THIS COUNTRY and preach their HATRED unfetterred. They are preaching this hatred in mosques in DEARBORN MICHIGAN for god's sake. We are ALLOWING a terrorist front group called CAIR (counsel on american islamic relations) to not only OPERATE here but to SUE (in our courts) airlines that have the nerve to remove suspicious passengers (the flying imans). In fact, the DEMOCRATS are killing a bill that would protect people who report suspicious behavior (which is what the gov't ASKED citizens to do in the wake of 911 etc)from being SUED!!! And we are so afraid to offend anyone that granny is getting searched more at the airport than Mustafa when we all know DAMN WELL that a thirty year-old arabic male presents far more a threat than an 80 year-old granny! I'm suggesting we wake the fuck up and confront REALITY and reality is that a very large number of muslims (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 million or more) want to kill us. John Edwards can talk about bumper striker slogans all he wants but make no mistake THEY ARE AT WAR WITH US whether we choose to admit it or not. I'd also ask that Clone or anyone else on this board show me even ONE relatively mainstream chrtistian or one person who proports to speak for christianity who is maintianing that we should KILL those who don't convert to christianity. There are christians who believe they are right and those who disagree are going to hell. But I know of none who maintain that THEY have the right to send them to hell. THAT is a material difference! The christians are not CURRENTLY (in this century) maintaining that they have the right to kill unbelievers. The muslims are!!! And folks WE are the unbelievers.

05-26-2007, 11:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
junkernaut Screamo for Emo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 143 Rep Power: 44	well i believe jerry falwell made some comments to that effect, pat robertson has made comments on more than one occasion......al sharpton has made his little innuendos.....theyve never been as blatent as lets say al sadr or bin laden, but if you understand subtext and reading between the lines, and i know that youre an extremely intelligent man wil, or else i wouldnt even bother with you, then you can hear just as much hateful and violent rhetoric as some of these islamic extremists.....they just do in 3 piece suits instead of burqas, hijabs and turbans. __________________ jesus had a great publicist