wilthrill

Please, please, please junkernaut!!!!!!

If I "read between the lines" christianity is as bad as Islam????

And I guess that is why we see christians lining up left and right to become suicide bombers? Oh, that's right, we don't!! Just a tiny distinction eh? One religion is lining up in droves to kill us and the other, well if I "read between the lines" they have said some rude things. Please junkernaut you are NOT Rosie O'Donnell STUPID!!! And you can't seriously maintain that there is moral equivalency between those who believe unbelievers are going to hell IN THE NEXT LIFE and those who want to send them there in this one!!!

I mean, hell man, if that is the standard then anyone who has spoken against gay marriage is JUST AS BAD as the guys who beat Matthew Sheppard to death and Mel Gibson IS Adolph Hitler (don't let the fact that Mel hasn't killed 6 million jews yet fool you)!

wilthrill

BUT as I said before let's NOT confine our arguments to Islam. You know on Adult Swim they have this show called the Boondocks. On that show they had an older black man (their version of Uncle Tom) who founded the Church of the White Jesus which taught that all black people were cursed by god who loved only his white "children". The old black guy would give sermons castigating blacks for being black and saying things like, "brothers and sisters turn to the darkie next to you and slap the darkness right out of him or her."

Well let's take that "religion" for example. Imagine it did exist and had grown to 20 million members. Furthermore imagine they had been involved in suicide bombings (for example the blew up NAACP headquarters killing 150 people and had assissinated Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton). Imagine that they had declared war on the US gov't which allows those "darkies to act like white people" vowing to kill any of those "darkie lovers" in gov't or any that support the gov't. Finally imagine a poll is taken and roughly 4 million of the memebers of the Church of the White Jesus said yes suicide bombing is justified to protect their racism (oops I mean religion).

Now do any of you seriously think the Church of the White Jesus would be treated with kid gloves by the drive-by media? Do any of you think the media would report the poll results with headlines like "Us Church of White Jesus Members Assimulate better than foreign counterparts" or "A majority of White Jesus Members do not favor Suicide Bombing". Do you honestly think the FBI would NOT be watching the shit out of the White Jesus congregations? And when a group of White Jesus members had to be removed from a commercial flight because they were acting provocatively (you know blocking the exits, requesting seat belt extensions when they obviously didn't need them and chanting "death to america" etc) do you honestly think we'd be allowing them to SUE the airline?

I submit to you that the Church of the White Jesus would be treated much differently than the way that the Islamofacists ARE be treated. Why?

White Jesus is threatening to kill us and attempting to ENSLAVE a large portion of the populace (black people). Islam is threatening to kill us and has already enslaved a large portion of it's populace (women).

Again, when a religion wants to kill you how do you ( a free society that values religious freedom) respond? I know it's a tough question but I submit that SURRENDERING to the terrorist religion in the hopes of not "offending" anyone is NOT going to promote religious freedom.

junkernaut

wil, lets look at what you said in one of your previous posts.....im paraphrasing of course since my add makes me start to twitch when i try to dig thru all of these posts for exact quotes. but u asked for any contemporary christian leader who might have said anything to the effect advocating violence to the non believers....and thats what i provided for you.
if you really listen to some of the horrible things some of these televangelists have said, and yes once again read between the lines, since theyre actually speaking to the delusional extremist part of theyre congregations, u will hear something along the lines of what you are asking for. much of it is very passionate onward christian soldiers rhetoric. perhaps theyve evolved past the car bomb and kill anyone that wont convert stages, but its still there.
as for these statistics that have been shown, it was proven that the numbers have actaully gone down since 2003. males from the ages of 18 to 30 have statistically been proven to be more radical which is why they were so high on these charts

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junkernaut

and since these are statistics after all, they can be skewed toward one conclusion or another.

please dont get me wrong will, i can definitly see the danger in these extremists, and one extremist movement is different from another, but try to remember like i said in a previous post, islam doesnt hold exclusivity rights on extremism....its just the one thats getting the most attention right now.

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junkernaut

now if were worried about security, then why hasnt bush done more to stengthen our borders and make it harder to get in. i realize its slightly off topic, but it is in fact related. the 911 highjackers had been here for years, we taught them how to attack us. and were still doing it. and on top of that, were spending trillions of dollars across the world to help a government who's not willing to help themself, while we have children and senior citizens here that are starving and living in poverty.

maybe we should more of our troops here taking care of us instead of sending them somewhere else to die for people who really dont even want our help

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PITBOSS

Christianity did its share of convert or die as junkernaut said. I really feel that if it were Christians over there in Palestine getting their land stolen and people massacred they would fight back with any weapon they possess, one of which happens to be suicide bombers. Muslims are amonst us, and most probably see the U.S. on the side of Israel against their people, so it's a serious threat. If it weren't for our biased foreign policy, we would probably have good relations with these people.

gmonyxmas

watched Paradise Now last night. Great flick about this very subject.

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clone9

Dubya claims he is a 'Christian' which of course we all know is laughable...all the while killing innocent Iraqi civilians
so there are plenty of examples of self-proclaimed "Christians" throughout history who kill others...they are just more subtle about it i.e. Bush is killing to 'spread free dumb and democracy'....you notice he doesn't say let's go to Iraq and kill those ahols for Jesus bc no1 woudl have bought into that.....anyway we all know that no real 'Christian' would kill anyone so yes I do agree true Christianity definitely has the moral high ground over the sick twisted religion created by the murdering rapist polygamist pedophile known as Mohammad

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Mikael

Uhm...Am I one of those "Myans" or "Aztecs" who are aligning themselves whith the "Conquistidors"? Is that what you're saying, Wil? Or are you really saying that you're more inline with Nazi Fascim?
I wonder what your "Final Solution" to the "Islamic Question" would be. Don't worry. I know you need to consult Dueshe Limphaugh first, and that your answer could take some time.
Don't think that because I posted a verse from the Qu'ran, that I support radicalism in anyway. As most people would have guessed, I was pointing out that those radical Muslims who are terrorists are actually going against their own religion. Just like we Christians do every day.
I am a sinner.

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wilthrill

Ok let's try to address them in the order they were presented...

Yes, junkernaut,pitboss and clone, christians HAVE (notice the tense of the verb) HAD a "convert or die" attitude. That attitude was in their past. I am sure that somewhere there are some self-proclaimed "christians" (maybe Fred Phelps and his bunch)that still do have this attitude BUT (and here is the important difference from Islam) THE EXTREMISTS are shunned and repudiated by mainstream christians and their leaders.

Junkernaut brings up Falwell. Well when Falwell was alive he HAD ABSOLUTELY NO QUALMS WHATSOEVER about CONDEMNING so-called christians who murder (Oklahoma City comes to mind. Falwell was all over the place comdemning Mcviegh). Yes, Falwell has said some controversial things, even HATEFUL things, like his remark about 911 being god's judgement on America for allowing gays etc. But even THAT remark states that GOD was the one "judging" america. Falwell, unlike the islamofacists, does not call on christians to go out and kill americans because America allows gays. Saying "my god will judge you" versus "my god told me to kill you" are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT things and you guys can't be so stupid as to not see the distinction. Falwell on his most hate-filled day wasn't even in the SAME LEAGUE as the Islamofacists who run TV shows teaching their CHILDREN that to murder jews or americans is "god's will"!!!

Pitboss, if the christians were resorting to suicide bombing this thread would be about them. And THAT is the real point although ALL OF YOU seemed to miss it. Twice now I've said, "let's not confine our arguments to Islam." What do you do when a religion wants to kill you and you are a country that values freedom of religion? Hell I even gave an example, The Church of the White Jesus, which conveinently, my critics in this thread have REFUSED to discuss. So to all of those who maintian that Islam isn't a danger and we should do nothing, would you hold the same view of the Church of the White Jesus (20 million members 5 Million of whom openly condone terror and a record of terror to go with their blatantly 18th century RACISM)?

To clone, war casualties DO NOT EQUAL civilians murdered while they eat pizza. I know you guys dislike Bush but are you maintaining that Bush, or the US military, TARGETTED civilians? Because THAT is what the Islamofacists do and THAT is the distinction!!!

And Mikael, obviously I'm not as clear as I thought, although I point out that it was junkernaut who dragged the mayans and aztecs into this debate. TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, my point was that WE (Americans of all stripes) should not sit by and do nothing while murderous thugs plot to kill us. The Aztecs numbered roughly 20 million when the conquistadors landed. If the Aztecs would have treated the conquistadors like the THREAT they were, the Aztecs could have EASILY defeated Cortez and his 500 men. Instead the Aztecs WELCOMED the conquistadors (ironically because they believe Cortez to be a GOD) and the rest is history.

I don't get the comment about aligning myself to fascism and Rush Limbaugh isn't addressing this issue but believe it or not I am MORE THAN CAPABLE of forming opinions on my own. Obviously there is some confusion so I'll clarify my position.

The US should:

1. STOP IMPORTING RADICAL MUSLIMS! (Bush is currently doing from Iraq. Clinton did it from Bosnia). And yes that may mean a religious question or two may have to be asked such as, "do you believe suicide bombing to be a legitimate defense of Islam?" ANYONE who answers YES should be barred from entering the country.

2. SECURE OUR BORDERS most notably the southern one. THAT is so painfully obvious it needs no explanation and BUSH SHOULD BE IMPEACHED RIGHT FUCKING NOW because of his INTENTIONAL failure in this regard.

3. PASS THE LAW THAT SHIELDS THOSE WHO REPORT SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR FROM LAWSUITS. More common sense being opposed by the DEMOCRATS.

4. ABOLISH CAIR. CAIR (cousel on american islamic relations) is a terrorist front group. They openly donate money to Hamas among others. The flying imans incident was orchestrated by CAIR who are currently suing the airline that removed the imans. They should be abolished (didn't Bush say after 911 that if you suupport terrorism then you are our enemy) and their leaders should be jailed or deported. And while we are doing this we should take advantage of the publicity to point out that we are through PLAYING! We don't give a fuck WHO we offend! We are not going to be nice to those who plot to kill us and we will scrutinize any Islamic (or any other hate-filled religion that is threatening us) organization to ensure that they aren't.

5. STOP FUNDING HATRED!! Tell countries like Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc that if those Maddrassas (hate schools) and TV shows glorifying suicide bombers aren't REMOVED within 1 year (you could "remove" a hate school by changing the curriculum) then NOT ONE AMERICAN CENT will flow into your country (I realize that with respect to Saudi Arabia this means we will have to find another source of oil).

6. The most disturbing of all but necessary nonetheless, we must rethink our notions of religious freedom. Specifically we must inflitrate Islam in this country and those who are teaching murder should NOT be allowed to practice that "religion". That goes for other "religions" also. Once a religion crosses the threashold of saying "followers go out and kill the unbelievers" they cease to be a religion in my view and become merely a threat that must be dealt with.

Those are my main points that I think we need to do. No Mikael the solution isn't final (nice smear attempt) and to some it may appear harsh but I would argue that a world war between radical islam and the rest of the world will be FAR MORE HARSH!!!